. As Suleyman Dost observes, The Qurns reference to rock-cut dwellings fits the picture perfectly with the exception that these carved niches do not seem to have functioned as living areas3, Returning to textual references, Diodorus, a Greek historian writing in the first century BC, mentions a group called Thamoudnoi in North-Western Arabia4. The general consensus among 14th-century Arab genealogists is that Arabs are of three kinds: The Hawazin tribe and the Quraysh tribe are considered Adnani Arabs. Dont ever think youre indespensible. 11. (2). According to Dr. Nehme, a senior research scientist at the French National Center for Scientific Research, the Nabateans have left us with almost no written material that would shed any light on their origins or even daily affairs. 7. According to the Online Corpus of the Inscriptions of Ancient North Arabia (OCIANA) at the University of Oxford: Thamudic is a name invented by nineteenth-century scholars for large numbers of inscriptions in ANA alphabets which have not yet been properly studied. We do not believe in the Bible the way it is today. 14. 3 Southern Europe. In other words either the evidence no longer exists (no problem) or Thamudic dwellings in North West Arabia are. The tribe refused to heed him, saying that Salih was merely a mortal, and demanded a sign from God. Although, implausible, but not impossible. The Meaning of La Ilaha Illa Allah (Tawheed): What is Islam? these 2 ayat that have been repeated elsewhere are a beautiful reminder of the lessons to be learned and ibra from the civilizations that have long gone and their signs remain for those that follow and there are many such examples of these very beautiful and instructive verses. [16] It is possible that the Thamud were not one tribe, and that other tribes took on the name of Thamd after the original tribe by that name had gone extinct. It had no written law, but the tribal leader played the role of ruler. 27:52 is in present tense. 4. in general: W. Caskel, amharat an-Nasab, das genealogische Werk des Him Ibn Muammad al-Kalb, Leiden 1966. harvnb error: no target: CITEREFElling2013 (. The Bible They just wanted to catch him in some sort of inconsistency they could use to discredit him. The Akkadians are the Arameans who are the Chaldeans who are the Nabateans who absorbed The Amorites. [1] Arab tribes have historically inhabited the Arabian Peninsula, but after the spread of Islam, they began to heavily migrate and settle in other areas such as the Levant,[2] Mesopotamia,[3] Egypt,[4] Sudan,[5] the Maghreb,[6] and Khuzestan. The account presented in Surah an-Naml also mentions nine evil people of Thamud who are immediately responsible for God's punishment of their people[Quran27:4851] in a narrative reminiscent of Jewish descriptions of the demise of Sodom. We are in grave doubt about what you are asking us to do." I dont know and this is a good aspect of the Quran; it does not go into such things and instead instructs us to focus on the message and not the nitty gritty. Chapter (41) srat fuilat (Explained in Detail) Sahih International: But if they turn away, then say, "I have warned you of a thunderbolt like the thunderbolt [that struck] 'Aad and Thamud.. Pickthall: But if they turn away, then say: I warn you of a thunderbolt like the thunderbolt (which fell of old upon the tribes) of A'ad and Thamud;. This individual was probably a merchant or official in service of the Babylonian court. Arabian tradition holds that the Thamud kingdom was destroyed by God. 7. As for option 2, we know next to nothing about the Thamud. That they were better than you in building these fallen down relics 2. Assalamualaikum I dont believe 27:50-53 is necessarily referring to their houses existing at the time of the Prophet SAW when they tell us to behold the sign therein. It is argued that the Quran and the Prophet () made an error in history and facts[1]. And they used to carve from the mountains, houses, feeling secure. A little later, Pliny, the Elder (d. 79 AD), a Roman historian, while writing hisNatural History,mentions theThamudaei5 a people dominant in Hegra, adjoining the Nabataeans. Now imagine if people arrive from Latin America, find Mount Rushmore, and make a few inscriptions on it. He said: ., Do not enter (the dwelling places) of these people unless you enter weeping, but if you weep not, then do not enter upon them, lest you be afflicted with what they were afflicted with [Bukhari]. Hence, the Prophet (s) and his companions did visit the land of Thamud and reflected upon the ruins of many idolatrous peoples found there, but they did not claim that any of these specific artifacts belonged to the first tribe of Thamud from the Quran. The Nabataeans were nomadic Arabs who moved into territory vacated by the Edomites Semites who settled the region centuries before them. Secondly, the Ayaat are not only meant for the Sahaba, they are also for us and for all times and so when the Quran asks the readers to look at what happened to those before, it is meant for us as well. God then destroyed the tribe, except for Salih and a few other righteous men. If they were made for dead bodies, it stands to reason that we should find at least one dead body in them. As I mentioned in our discussion on your post regarding Gog and Magog, I was very interested to read your reply to the missionary accusation regarding Thamud, because the argument seems to be rather recent and it seems to at least on its surface have good argumentation and hence we as Muslims must develop countermeasures. As such, missionaries and polemicists have claimed that the mistakes of Muslim folklore, or contradictory applications of the name Thamud to archaeological discoveries, suggest an historical mistake in the Quran. Saudi Arabia, in terms of archaeology, is really untouched. Among such nations were the 'Ad and the Thamud, the Amalekites and the Himyar after them, the Tubbas, and the other South Arabian rulers (Adhwa). You can find the first onehere), Thamud were before time of the Israelites they were same time as the Assyrians who they mixed with. [28] Traditionally, both the prophets Hud and Saleh and by implication, their respective communities Aad andThamud, are thought to have existed generations before Abraham, placing them well before 1300 BC (at the very least1). But the inscriptions in Lihyanite script and some recently discovered archaeological vestiges are evidence for human settlementas early as the 3rd or 2nd century BCE. [27] Both tribes are of great reputed antiquity and, according to traditional Arab genealogists, are two of the four ba 'ida, or extinct tribes. You would only make my loss greater. Their destruction was like a forest being mowed down by giant machines. The scripts used in these inscriptions is mostly Hismaic and Safaitic writing systems native to Arabia, and quite distinct from the one later adopted for writing the Quran. . In fact, we even know the scripts they used! Here is how their argument goes: The Quran describes prophet called Salih ( ), who lived in the Thamud tribe. An envoy was sent to the nations to say, Or is that verse just saying what they used to do in the vally copyright@ Atowar Rahman Salafi || year 2021, may, @Copyright_ Atowar Rahman Salafi Ok thanks jazzakkallah last questions and ill leave it at that what do you mean not on the surface and is 89:9 saying the Arabs could still see those buildings because it says (the rocks it uses al the why not just say rocks and what does it mean by rocks does it mean houses or mountains thanks Some have shelves carved into the rock; one has a large room, possibly big enough to house a council. They write new content and verify and edit content received from contributors. Replying by always staying what is the problem or what is the issue seems to have a rebuking or shaming tone that appears very harsh to the questioner. (sorry for all the writting just answer the atharan bit and the 7 things I just wrote Down it doesnt matter about that long paragraph in the middle), Or bonus it just means they were better in building houses on past witch you cant see anymore like effects in 30:50, Any thoughts Bro sorry to keep bothering you with this, Aoa We find ruins of so many past civilisations such as Indus Valley (Mohenjodaro, Harappa), Sodom, and so on. As menitoned earlier, the Aad were a strong, brutish, and conquering people. The earliest abundant references for Thamud in our literary sources are in relation to the Nabataean empire a large Arab kingdom encompassing parts of modern Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia (including the Hejaz, the area containing Mecca and Medina) and even parts of Sinai. Success comes from Allah, and Allah knows best. 11. Archaeological Site of Al-Hijr (Madin Slih), Forty Hadith al-Nawawi in English and Arabic, Al-Aqidah al-Tahawiyyah in English and Arabic, Forty Hadith on Purification of the Heart. [24] Whether the poem is genuinely by Umayya or is a post-Islamic creation is a matter of debate. One of the main lessons I see is that we must be very careful about mocking or challenging Allah. They carved-out habitations on the hills and mountainscaves constructed on high places. Salam. The exact time of their existence is nearly impossible to determine. [21], A hadith tradition preserved in the a al-Bukhr collection narrates that the Islamic prophet Muhammad called Hegra "the land of Thamud" and did not allow his troops to drink from its wells or to use its water, and to never enter its ruins "unless weeping, lest occur to you what happened to them. Even if the prophet saw these exact structures which are visible today and we can, hypothetically, prove beyond a shadow of doubt that no one ever lived in them, and he took them to be the dwellings of the Thamud, that isnt a major problem. Rather, it tells us to look at the region in which Thamud had existed as well as the many generations after them. Have not invested any considerable time investigating the actual archeological claims. And as for Thamud, We showed them the path of truth but they preferred blindness to guidance; so the Sa`iqah of disgracing torment seized them because of what they used to earn. Assalamualaikum thnx for the link. The Edomites can also be a separate nation and through the passage time they shared history, tradition, and custom with the remnants of the Thamud. 4. Are these tourist sites now identified at Madian Saleh the same as those we see discussed in the saheeh ahadith during the Tabuk expedition or is that a different location because these sites are identified as built by Nabataens and not Thamud and are considered much later than Thamud people (if we consider the finds to be absolutely authentic that these are Nabataens who built them. from there I will bring you down, And Ad and Thamud-it must be clear to you from their dwelling places! [28] A large Arab migration to Mesopotamia followed the Muslim conquest of Mesopotamia in 634, which saw an increase in the culture and ideals of the Bedouins in the region. I hope the Christians, after having read this, will decide to do whats ethical and moral. They were craftsmen. Though you build your nest as high as the eagles, While certain online Christian communities are abuzz with elation and glee, some Muslims are faced with difficulties in formulating a proper response to the latest Christian accusation. Qur'an, Surah Fussilat (41:15-18) Explanation: "As for `Ad, they were arrogant in the land without right." But the buildings of the Aad are like Lego blocks compared to the Thamud. [13] Adnanites are believed to be the descendants of Ishmael through Adnan but the traditional Adnanite lineage doesn't match the biblical line exactly. The facades vary in height and in the richness of their decorations. This bears enough similarity to the description of the Thamd dwellings in theQurn to induce certain authors to claim that they are the houses of the Thamd. They were built not before the time of Musa ( ), but during the first century BC and the first century CE. But despite all of this advice, the Aad rejected their brother Hud. [17] The Muslim governor of Egypt encouraged the migration of tribes from the Arabian Peninsula to Egypt to increase the Muslim population in the region and to strengthen his regime by enlisting warrior tribesmen to his forces, encouraging them to bring their families and entire clans. [26] The Arab descendants of the original Arabian settlers who continue to speak Arabic as a first language currently form the single largest population group in North Africa. The Prophet ordered that the drinking water be split and the flour given to the camels, and he ordered them to drink the water from the well to which the she-camel (of Salih) had come. Another inscription from the same temple mentions Aad by name, and reads, by Ghawth son of Aslah son of Thokam and he constructed the temple of Allt, of the people of Ad. 15. The people of Noah, when they denied the Messengers, We drowned them and made them a sign for people We have prepared for wrongdoers a painful punishment and Ad, Thamud, the companions of the well, and many generations between them. It does not state, however, who made the inscriptions. 15:75 can also be interpreted as a HISTORICAL sign/reminder when referring to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Whereas the people who did cravings in al-Hijr were Nabateans. [2] The Thamud are not specially connected to the Thamudic scripts, an aggregate term for understudied writing systems of Ancient Arabia. Ptolemy (d. 168 AD), describes a people called Oaditai8, bordered by Aramaeans to the north, and Thamud to the south, close to what is today called Wadi Ramm. Updates? . 2. Verses 15:80-83describe its inhabitants as carving their homes out of mountains and being decimated by a loud shriek characteristics ascribed by the Quran elsewhere to the people of Thamud2. the fate and remains of past generations with our eyes bcuz verse 25:37 speaks about the people of Nuh AS and it tells us that Allah SWT left a sign for mankind. The Thamud (Arabic: , romanized:amd) were an ancient Arabian tribe or tribal confederation[1] that occupied the northwestern Arabian peninsula between the late-eighth century BCE, when they are attested in Assyrian sources, and the fifth century CE, when they served as Roman auxiliaries. Later still, we find them mentioned by Ptolemy (d. 168AD), in his Geography.6. As also 'Ad and Thamud, and the Companions of the Rass, and many a generation between them. of 'Ad and Thamud by name. In fact they were pretty snarky in their responses. This is attested by Safaitic inscriptions (beginning in the 1st century BCE) and the many Arabic personal names in Nabataean inscriptions. From the overall area of a few miles, that particular area of a few feet had Thamudic remains. Required fields are marked *. They didnt bluntly reject Salih like the Aad did to Hud. Obadiah 1:3 I hope they remove whatever articles they have written on this topic, as its beyond question that the Quran did not make an error on this topic, given that the Bible makes similar claims, and given that we know almost nothing about the Nabateans, and that the majority of the structures85 percent in Petra, and a major portion in Median Salehare still hidden under ground. On the first day, their skin would turn yellow; on the second day, red; and on the final day of destruction, black. A Reminder of the Story of 'Aad and Thamud by Ibn Kathir, taken from Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Abridged), Volume 8 Darussalam 2000 As for `Ad, they were arrogant in the land without right and they said: 'Who is mightier than us in strength?' See they not that Allah Who created them was mightier in strength than them. And Ad and Thamud as has been made clear from their dwellings. The glorious Qur'an considered the people of 'Ad after Nuh (a); when it says, "and that it is He who destroyed the former 'Ad", "The former 'Ad" were the people of Prophet Hud (a) who lived after the people of Nuh (a) and before the people of Thamud. Here is how their argument goes: The Quran describes prophet called Salih ( ), who lived in the Thamud tribe. Seeking blessings from relics of the righteous? The hadith reports the prophet (pbuh) as having passed Median Saleh and described the ruins as their dwellings referring to the Thamud. Or just left relics in land 6. 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